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campaign? >> through a variety of reports, we know that regime forces that were in the vicinity of benghazi nowpossess little will or capability to resume offensive operations. >> this hour the mission, the end game and tough questions about the libyan opposition. the top republican on the foreign relations committee, senator richard lugar, joining us. and senator jim webb. flash point yemen. three top generals change sides calling for the president's oyster. and the situation of the japan's crippled nu crippled nuke chenuclear plantse availablize ie izstabilizing. we begin in libya. u.s. says coalition air strikes have established a no fly zone
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in the east soon to be extendeded to tripoli. richard engel, they say the operation went as well as could be expected. but there are a lot of questions remaining about whether we'll be able to turn this command over to whom and the opposition. how much do we though about the opposition in wlib qua and how do you distinguish between rebel forces and civilians? >> reporter: it's difficult to distinguish from rebel forces and civilians because the rebels until a few days ago or a few weeks ago were mostly civilians and they don't have a cheer leadership, they don't have uniforms. they don't have marked vehicles. and a lot of them are very undisciplined and up frofrnfo l unprofessional. they were trying to see how extensive the air and missile strikes were yesterday. today we were just out with rebel, watching them get into
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pickup trucks and head toward the front lines. we were watching rebels head to an area where they believe they have liberated most of the city. but they are not the kind of force without american help can hold territory for long. some of the rebels looked like they were 15 or 16 years old. i was watching one of these very teen -- one of these teenaged boys spinning a pistol in his hand like he was doing a wild west truck. they were carrying knives. they were not the kind of force that can hold territory here and they will certainly need a great deal of support. not just from the air and from the sea strikes, but also medical support, fuel which is starting to run low and of course weapons. >> and from what you've seen, if gadhafi were removed from his own people or some other way, could this coalition take over
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and run this country? >> reporter: i think it's doubtful. the leadership of the rebel movement has not been very strong. part of that is it doesn't have very good communications. communications across libya particularly here in the east are very difficult. so the rebels have almost no contact with their civilian leaders who seem to be coordinating mostly with the outside world. it's unlikely that this leadership which is mostly untested would be able to unify the entire country. for the last four decades, gadhafi has run this country through his family, through divide and conquer strategy. so there is not a growing leadership or a consistent leadership that would be able to step in and take over if gadhafi were ultimately removed. >> richard engel, thank you very much on that report. defense secretary robert gates
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has said that the u.s. will turnover the command of the libyan operation after these initial days. >> we expect in a matter of days to be able to turn over the primary responsibility to others. we will continue to support the coalition, we'll be a member of the coalition, we will have a military role in the coalition, but we will not have the preeminent role. >> that was bob gates on route to russia. now with us james webb, member of the armed services committee and vietnam veteran. former navy secretary, familiar with exactly what is going on in the field today. senator, are you comfortable with the command structure and with the role the u.s. is playing? >> if we're going to discuss what's going on in libya, what you have to start with three basic considerations. the first is we have a military operation that's been nut to play, but we do not have a clear diplomatic policy or clear
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statement of foreign policy that has accompanied the military operation. the second and the questions you were just asking are some that i've asked, we know we don't like the gadhafi regime, but we do not have a picture of who the opposition movement really is. and the third is yes, we got a vote from the security council in order to put this about to may, but we had five key abstainians. so before we even get in to the command structure of this, i think it's very clear to put the marker down that moving forward we need to get more involved in terms of anything that goes from this point forward. >> and the key factor secretary
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clinton told us was the arab league's endorsement. but qatar has proposed putting air flights in to this mission, they have yet to show up or not yet operational. is that real buy in from the arab league? >> i would agree with that concern, but a concern that i have is that we have been sort of on auto pay lot for almost ten years from now in terms of presidential authority in conducting these type of military operations absent the meaningful participation of the congress. we have not had a debate and i know that there was some justification put into place because of concern for civilian casualties. but this isn't the way that our system is supposed on work. >> what about the diplomatic mission taking you back to one of the first points you made.
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do you know what the mission is is this is the mission to -- i know they can't say so, they don't have legal authority for it, but after last nature's strike on the compound, do you think the mission really is to take out gadhafi? what if this ends and gadhafi is still in power? what then have we bought in will into? >> i think you sawles per hour mullen sayi een i think th president and the secretary of state have a very clear obligation now to come forward to the american people and to the congress and state clearly what they believe the end point of this should be. they haven't done that. >> and what about turning over the command. do you think that it's important for the u.s. not to be the lead here but in terms of the high tech weapons, we clearly are the leader. britain has obviously great assets, as well, as does france.
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>> i really don't believer th w have an obligation to get involved in every single occurrence in that part of the world. and this issue is of much more economic importance quite frankly to britain and france. libyan oil even though it's only 2% of the world's output is a very light oil, it's much more easily refined and the factories in europe are not geared up for some of the heavier crude that comes out of saudis, for instance. they have much more of an interest in terms of conducting military operations. we don't have to get involved in every one of these quite frankly. >> senator jim webb, thank you so much. we'll have much more coming up. we'll be talking to dick lug gar and others from the hill, as well. but meanwhile the other crisis, japan. japan continues to deal with its nuclear crisis.
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law manger jor lawmakers are deg nuclear power. i'm joined by ed markey. they're telling us today that the nuclear regulatory commission believes the reactors are now contained, that ll not be further breaches. but earlier today this was smoke, there was an evacuation, potassium iodide was distributed to families within a 50 mile radius. an announcement from the state department. what about your concerns right now, first of all, about what's happening in japan? >> obviously this is an accident which was unan tnot anticipated. their technology is similar to ours. so i think this is just another warning about the inherent
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unsafety of nuclear power plants. it is the reason in the united states that wall street will not invest in nuclear power. it is the reason why the insurance industry will not pry insurance coverage for any nuclear power plant in the united states unless the american taxpayers pick up the first $12.6 billion worth of damage that a nuclear power plant in our country would create. and they will not build any new plants unless the nuclear industry says the american taxpayers provides loan guarantees. so this is just another example that proves that it's not protesters that have made it impossible for the nuclear industry to build new plants. it's wall street investors looking at the inherent unsafity safety of the technology. >> there are 103 online already. but in particular, this are two
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in california on earthquake faults and indian point in new york. what are your concerns about those reactors that are operational and near huge population centers? >> we should not have built nuclear power plants on earthquake faults. and going forward, the nuclear regulatory commission should never again license a new nuclear power plant in any seismically active area. and there is a new design which the commission is in the process of approving which a scientist says will shatter like a glass cup under stress. so we just have to go back and reexamine this entire question of where we -- the ones in california right now, we should ensure that the safety systems work.
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we should ensure that we have a supply of potassium iodide available to distribute in the event that something does go wrong. no one should panic, no one should think that there is anything which is imminent, but at the same time, there have already been three earthquake, one in chile, one this new zealand, one in japan. and the other part of that quadrant is california. so all of this has occurred in the last year and we should just be prepared for an earthquake and assume that the nuclear power plants will be amongst the institutions that are most challenged during that time of crisis. you go, do you have any reservations with the military operations in libya? >> we're in libya because of oil. and i think both japan and the nuclear technology and this dependence we have on imported oil have both once again
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highlighted the need for the united states to have a renewable energy agenda going forward. i think the president did notify the congress that he was going to take action. i think it is going to be limited in scope. i think it is consistent with siding with the aspirations of young more educated people who are seeking a new direction for libya, but it all goes back to the 5 million barrels of oil that we import from opec on a daily basis and the republicans in congress and i'll just finish on this note, last week in the house of representatives in the energy and commerce committee stripped the environmental protection agency of their ability to increase the fuel economy standards of the cars and trucks and planes and trains that we put the oil into and by the way in a bill that passed three weeks ago zeroed out all of the loan guarantee money for wind and solar while leaving in the money for nuclear power. so this is the time for a great
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debate. japan and libya. oil and nuclear. what is our future? and if we are going to have one, shouldn't it be one where we tap into our own technologies, our open ability to be able to provide the electricity we need with the indigenous natural resources that we have in our own country rather than dangerously playing games with opec countries all with the nuclear technology which is inherently unsafe. so i think that all americans know why the president made this strike. as long as american old engineers are not on the ground, as long as no blood shed is attributed to our young men and women, then i think it's a good decision for the president. >> thank you very much, ed markey. and coming up next, a leading critic of the operation in libya, senator richard lugar. and send me your thoughts on twitter. this is andrea mitchell reports, only on msnbc. it's just the way you like it--
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in just about an hour, president obama will be taking a few questions the first time since u.s. began air strikes on libyan targets. a van savannah guthrie is traveling with the president. i know the white house says that the president has been holding conference calls, national security calls from the plane, from the ground, but it still is a little dissonant for him to be talking about economic advancement in latin america at this time when we're militarily engaged. >> reporter: it's an odd juxtaposition. some of the images are odd.
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we see the president toasting the president of brazil almost at the moment he's ordering air strikes in libya. we've seen the president do a little bet of sight seeing at cultural events and we'll see some of that today, as well. but the white house has said this is a president who is able to do both given the state modern communications. he just did another one this morning with his national security adviser traveling with him. so he's very much keeping an eye on what's happening overseas. he also got an update on japan. but there is no question this is what a lot of people like to call the split screen presidency. while he tries to go forward with his trip in latin america, of course all of the attention is on what's happening in libya. once again aides are saying that they believe the enforcement of the no fwly zone will be handed over to the coalition in the
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matter of days, not weeks. >> a beautiful day in chile. thank you so much. and a glimmer of good news out of japan today. authorities at the fukushima nuclear power plant have told the nuclear regulatory commission that reactors one, two and three are now fully contained. we're joined now by lee cowan who has arrived in seoul. it's great to see you. what about the food? and i know that the food supply had some contamination which included spinach and milk. we know the extensive damage to the food supply years later in ukraine after chernobyl in 1986. so what do we know now about what's happening in japan? >> reporter: as you say, there is contamination that they found both in spinach and other leave if
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leafy vegetables. there has also been some trace elements very small elements found in the drinking water.veg. there has also been some trace elements very small elements found in the drinking water. they've been told not to drink the water but use it for other things. the world health organization has indicated that that is a sign that perhaps this is more serious than made we originally thought in terms of the amount of radiation that is spread around, but at the same time these are very, very small amounts. the japanese government banned the shipment of milk. about today four prefectures banned the shipment of leafy vegetables, as well. so the government is walking a fine line. on the one hand they're saying we'll ban these shipments, make sure they don't get into the food supply. we'll reimburse the farmers. but at the same time they're also saying this really isn't that big a deal, these are very small amounts. but as you say, everybody thinks about what happened to chernobyl
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especially with children and the issues connected with some of the contaminated food they ate. but it's all about the levels and they're saying these are very minimal. >> lee cowan, thank you for that from seoul. and up next, palin does israel. and house minority leader nancy pelosi has been released from a rome hospital after falling ill briefly after a trip to afghanistan. she's hotel. she's in italy to celebrate that country's 150th anniversary. hey ella! hey. here's boulder. ok, see you in an hour. [ boulder barks ] bye, bye. here we go. come on boulder. aah! [ dog barks ] aah! come on, guys! daisy! whoo! aah! [ female announcer ] lunchables cheese pizza --
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certainly there would have been more decisiveness, less dithering, more decisiveness. >> okay. she said she wouldn't criticize a sitting president even while overseas, but sarah palin did just that, slamming the president's libya response claiming it was dithering. it was of course during a paid speech in india. pay slin on a rare five day foreign tour. is she trying to burnish her foreign policy credentials for a possible presidential rain? jeanne cummings joining us. she was in india, she slammed the president. then she arrived in israel. she'll be having dinner tonight with prime minister netanyahu. it's a strange concurrence of travel schedule. >> absolutely. and it strikes to be just like
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so many other things that the form governor does and that is keeping her options open. if she had just gone to india and given a highly paid speech, that would be taken as a signal that she probably isn't seriously still thinking about a presidential run. by dropping over and doing this stop in jerusalem, that feeds the notion that she may indeed still be considering it. so like so many things with the former governor, she's unpredictable and she's keeping all of her options open. >> she also makes use of symbolism. she was wearing what looked like a diamond necklace, a star of david when she arrived in israel. so she was certainly showing her support for israel and that's kind of a campaign style event, if you will. >> absolutely. clearly the relationship between iz rsrael and u.s. is a tenant our foreign policy and she was
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wrapping her arms around that and by making remarks that she said she wasn't going to make in india, she also was putting her toe in the water in terms of more current events. and suggesting that she would have done things can differently about if she was aboif she was e house of course we have no idea in detail what that might have been. >> thank you very much. and coming up next, what is the end game in libya? we'll talk to senator richard lugar. this is andrea mitchell reports only on msnbc. i'm good about washing my face. but sometimes i wonder...
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got them out. they crossed in to due pietunis monday. they're safe and sound and welcome back. president obama has said moammar gadhafi must go. last night allied cruise missiles struck gadhafi's compound. but officially the position is that xw gadhafi is not being targeted. >> the goals are himlimited and isn't about seeing him go. it's about supporting the united nations resolution which talked to limiting or eliminating hiz ability to kill his own people. >> so the mission can be accomplished and gadhafi could remain in power? >> that's potentially one outcome. >> richard lugar is the ranking member of the foreign relations committee and joins me now. senator, first picking up right there from what admiral mullen
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said, if that is one option, has this mission failed? >> i'm sorry, could i ni could the question well. >> i'm sorry, if gadhafi remains at the end of the military operation as admiral mullen said is one option and the u.s. has said that he's not being targeted, what is your view of that option if gath remadhafi r in power? >> i've said from the beginning that the plan is not simply there, the end game is not apparent. so as a result of first strikes have knocked out at least air facilities that were at least harming the rebels. but after that, the major question is gadhafi to stay, will there be ground activity. the president said no american
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boots on the ground, no american aircraft even over the country. in the meantime the arab league has second thoughts about it. the african union said they're opposed. so we're back to square one. what is the plan? is it a situation which each nation determines by going to the security council we'll take some action or is there finally going to be some coming together of the parties so that there is a coherence to all of this? >> now that we're in it, what do you think we need to do to make it more clear? >> well, first of all, the american people through the congress need to hear what our president believes his objectives are. and he has indicated he has constitutional power to do what he's done to date. but i would simply argue that if we are going in to war with
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libya, we should declare war on libya, we should pull together with our allies and try to figure out a plan of how that war is to be won. and what the objectives are and likewise what happens after it's won. who are the libyans we would deal with and for how long. does it involve economic assistance and nation building and additional steps. these are things that must be debated here in washington quite apart from paris or at least encounters with other countries in which we say we'll hold your coat, we don't object to what you're up to. >> as bad as gadhafi is, let me stipulate that, you raised the question about the opposition leaders. what do we know about the opposition here and their ability to run this country and prevent al qaeda or other extremist forces from taking root there? >> we know very little about the
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opposition leaders. secretary hillary clinton met with one of them recently and obviously this was an important impression in terms of the statements that she has made. but the fact is that almost every city has different opposition leaders. and as many have pointed out, many of their personnel in eastern libya states fought against tunited states troops i iraq. they were off in a different sort of venture and could very well be caught up in the shiite sunni divisions. >> if we have the right to go into libya to support the rebels there and we say it's a humanitarian commission, why don't we also have the obligation then to go into yemen or bahrain? >> well, obviously the contradictions are abundant. in bahrain, essentially the
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saudis perhaps doubting now that the united states really can be counted upon finally to be helpful to them if their defense has sent saudi troops in to bahrain. the claim is once again it's a sunni government in bahrain fighting off iranian shiites. so that division is there. but clearly in bahrain we have the fifth fleet. we have had a relationship with that government and that government is now firing on protesters. it's everyone more critical in yemen where the leader there had been very instrumental in our intelligence first with regard to al qaeda, but he is under great pressure with some of his government's signing as a dubious situation as to his longevity unless somebody comes to the rescue, it would be very
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contradictory because he's also also firing on people that are rebels in yemen for us to be taking one stance with regard to so-called civilians and rebels in libya whereas in bahrain and yemen where we have considerable, at least we need the people right now to often intelligence about al qaeda. and we're advising that they ought to go into governmental refor reform, but they're not in position to do so. >> a lot of questions and obviously concerns at the foreign relations committee. thank you very much, senator. and we are now three days in to the military intervention in libya that president obama originally wanted to avoid. with us arrest lee cooper and aaron david miller. cooper and aaron
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david miller. thank you both. we saw a lot of twists and turns over the last days. did clinton come to this reluctantly and how do you feel the president also reached these decisions after first signaling in all of the briefings that we had ten days ago that there would not be military action in libya? >> i think both secretary clinton and president obama have come to this reluctantly. i think clinton turned around earlier last week after the arab league vote and after she got assurances from the uae that the arabs would be willing to participate in a military assault. president obama made his decision later last tuesday and seems to -- has committed troops, but you can tell when you're talking to administration
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officials that there's still a fair amount of ambivalence about this mission which is why you keep hearing the military officials saying this is a limited mission, we'll be pulling american involvement back very quickly. it will be days and not weeks. although that remains to be seen, as well. but will there are a lot of questions about just what our intent exactly is. the military people, i talked to somebody at the pentagon yesterday, and they said as far as the military mission, it's not to get rid of gadhafi. it's for them to go in and protect the libyan people and to pound these air defenses and artillery targets. but they were very adamant that their job is not to target colonel gadhafi himself. which is sort of at odds with what president obama himself said when he said colonel gadhafi needs to go. >> is that credible that we're not targeting gadhafi? >> what's not credible is the
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absence of a strategy. military means is means to an end. and the objective has to be clear. the objective must go well beyond protecting libyan civilians. and once the president xhicommi american forces, every day that goes by that colonel gadhafi remains in power is an admission of defeat and weakness on the part of the coalition. and this is the problem in wars of choice and wars of discretion. the goals are not clear. had we started from the beginning and argued that we were at war with libya and gadhafi had to go, this would be no security council resolution, there would have been no coalition of the willing. no arab support. so, yes, our unstated objective is to bring enough military power to bear to crack the regime, ultimately to force gadhafi from power either through a negotiated settlement which presses him out of the country or to seek his military defeat. any other outcome at this stage
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is just not acceptable or will be viewed as a defeat. >> we'll have to leave it there. thank you both very much. and we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is lara. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills.
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where customers save an average of $293 a month. call lending tree at... today. coming up on news nation, juggling act. as missiles rain down on libya, president obama prepares to hold a news conference with the president of chile. he will take questions. we'll get analysis from chris matthews. that's ahead on news nation at 2:00 p.m. eastern. the arab league says that it stands firm united with the u.n. security council despite some concerns expressed over the weekend that the air strikes were going beyond the u.n. mandate. u.s. officials scramble to get the arab countries back on
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board, but so far their participation in the military operation has been minimal. are they really behind this? is the arab league endorsement which was so critical in getting the u.n. on board, is that going to hold? >> i think it will hold for the time being. he's made a career out of making comments about the united states, never engages in self criticism and intro specs and he's in election mode. and some of his friends even will concede that he has been very opportunistic politician. but i think the saudis would like to see the regime in rip
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p tripoli yoe tloefr, but if it drags on, there will be second thoughts because they can't be honest with their own people and i don't believe that arabs don't fight each other. the egyptians attacked libya at one time, iraq invaded kuwait, saudis were involved in the conflict last year. this is nonsensical, but they want to create the impression that there something holy abou arabs not engaging in something beyond criticism. so i think the commitment will hold because moammar gadhafi is universally reviled in the arab world and he created the kind of mess in africa and if arab countries that will last for a long time. his damage is beyond libyan border. >> and as you pointed out, he
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has his even political agenda. we've had defections from the military. >> i think it's a question of time and we hope that it will end without more blood shed and blood letting. unfortunately the social, cultural and economic structure in yemen lends itself to civil strive. this is not a homogenous country like egypt or tunisia. there are many regions where he was good exploiting them to gain momentum. it's a question of time and one would hope that it will not be as bloody as what we've seen in libya or in yemen where scores of people were killed in cold blooded by supporters of the regime. >> thank you so much for joining us.
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good to see you. and what political story will be making headlines in the next 24 hours? that's next right here. stay with us. hey, you can't take allegra with fruit juice. what? yeah, it's on the label. really? here, there's nothing about juice on the zyrtec® label. what? labels are meant to be read. i'd be lost without you. i knew you weren't allergic to me. [ sneezes ] you know, you can't take allegra with orange juice. both: really? fyi. [ male announcer ] get zyrtec®'s proven allergy relief and love the air®. (laughing through computer) good night, buddy. good morning, dad. (announcer) oreo. milk's favorite cookie.
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first ever presidential candidate to begin the formal process of exploring or running for president on facebook. 3:00 today, the former minnesota governor will announce plans to form an exploratory committee. what political story will be making headlines in the next 24 hours? one of them. msnbc contribute somewhere managing editor of, chris cillizza, joins us. pawlenty gets in first? >> yeah. this process, you sort of -- you took the words out of my mouth. this process is funny the way works. he's not technically announcing he's running for president this afternoon. he's announcing he's exploring a run for president all that means it's a legal definition, he can raise money for a potential bid,
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while he sees if he's going to run or not. look, he's going to run for president. i think there will be an announcement some time this spring. it's this is a step, candidates have done this because they get two bites of the apple. we talk about it today and we talk about it when they formally announces. it's a little bit of gaming the system. the first major candidate we think will be in the end of the nomination fight to get it. >> meanwhile, richard lugar and the others that we interviewed today suggesting that the president has a long way to go to explain what the mission is in libya. we're going to be hearing from the president momentarily. but knit that formal setting with the leader in chile, only permit two or three questions and some of them will be focused on latin america? >> you know -- >> they're all set up for it right now. >> right. we're minutes away. what's hard about this, you know, the president is, as you said, they're having a joint press conference, limited
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questions. at 3:30, he's going to deliver the flagship address of this trip about america's relationship with latin america. of course, it's going to be 100% overshadowed by what, if anything, he says or done say or doesn't answer in this press conference about libya. so this trip is very tough for the president. it's tough to have another major conflict -- forget japan -- a natural disaster in two foreign countries, neither of which you happen to be in at the moment. it's very difficult just sort of how it looks from a perception perspecti perspective. >> he's had a national security briefing on the plane, secure conference call with the cabinet level officials but you've got the defense secretary in russiaing secretary of state is here, the vice president is here, but the president is traveling. we're not suggesting -- and i don't think critics would suggest he should have canceled the trip -- but it does create awkwardness.
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>> i don't doubt he's able to address all of these things. from the way it looks, it's hard to be in latin america, talking about libya, with an earthquake, tsunami, and fallup in the natural disaster going on in ja. it's very complicated paper democrat president, republican president, anyone would struggle with this kind of challenge. >> chris cillizza, thank you very much. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." tomorrow on the show, james lee witt, plus chris van hollen and james clyburn. tamron hall has a look at what's next on "news nation." minutes from now, president obama will hold a joint news conference with chile's president. it is the first time the president could take questions on operation odyssey dawn. we'll have team coverage, including "hardball" chris matthews. both sides of the aisle criticizing the u.s. involvement in libya. what critics want to hear from
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the president regarding his handling of the crisis. ♪ don't worry now i won't hurt you ♪ ♪ and if you got worries then you're like me ♪ ♪ don't worry now i won't desert you ♪ ♪ [ continues ] [ announcer ] when it comes to the things you care about, leave nothing to chance. travelers. insurance for auto and home. call or click now for an agent or quote. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve. just 2 pills can keep arthritis pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is lara who chose 2 aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels.
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breaking news right now. "news nation," air assault on libya. the u.s. fires a dozen more cruise missiles inside libya, and announces the no-fly zone will soon be expanded. plus, we are watching live pictures from santiago, chile, where president obama is about to hold a joint news conference with chilean president pinera. this is the first time the president could take questions since the u.s. started launching air strikes in libya. headlines right now from libya. the u.s. commander in africa announcing the past couple of hours the no-fly zone in libya is now being expanded to the south and west. general carter hamm said in the past 24 hours, u.s. and british forces launched a dozen tomahawk missiles at libyan command and control facilities and other targets.

Andrea Mitchell Reports
MSNBC March 21, 2011 1:00pm-2:00pm EDT

News/Business. Interviews with political figures with host Andrea Mitchell. New.

TOPIC FREQUENCY Gadhafi 19, U.s. 13, Us 8, Bahrain 6, Yemen 6, Chile 6, Japan 5, India 5, Clinton 4, Richard Lugar 4, Israel 4, Latin America 4, United States 3, Mullen 3, U.n. 3, Boulder 3, Andrea Mitchell 3, America 3, Msnbc 3, California 3
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